Utah Stories

Utah Homelessness Getting Out of Control: What are the solutions?

We discuss possible solutions to the homeless problem in Utah with experts: Scott Howell and Jean Hill who have opposing views on this issue.

|


A conversation with Pioneer Park Coalition board Member Scott Howell and Catholic Diocese Director Jean Hill.

It’s an untenable situation: more people camping on the streets; more people unwilling to enter shelters; more clearly insane people walking around the streets in downtown; all social services in Salt Lake City are maxed out. There are not enough social workers, beds, or homeless services: What should be done? What can be done?

We sat down with two leading homeless experts: Scott Howell who served on the social services committee in the Utah State Senate directing funds from the Utah State Legislature to homeless NGOs and Jean Hill, who serves on the other side of the issue operating the Catholic Diocese for Salt Lake City: The Weigand Center and Saint Vincent DePaul Dining Hall

Their answers to our questions concerning the Housing First policy, the unaccountability of how dollars are being spent, and where the money should be allocated are in vast contrast. Both are Democrats but still, they see things very differently from each other. 

Pioneer Park Coalition board Member Scott Howell and Catholic Diocese Director Jean Hill
We talk to Pioneer Park Coalition board Member Scott Howell and Catholic Diocese Director Jean Hill.

The Debate Over Housing First For Homelessness

After Scott and I finished our conversation, off-air, Jean Hill said to Scott, “I can see you are spreading more misinformation.” 

“I am not.” 

“Housing First is not free housing.”

“I never said it was free.”

“Yes, you did. Housing first requires a percentage of their paycheck going toward rent, it’s not free.”

Their back-and-forth debating went on for a while. Scott challenged Jean to a debate. The crux of their disagreement concerns Housing First viability and costs. Jean Hill believes with all certainty it is the right policy, but it is currently understaffed and underfunded.

Scott Howell, who says that this year the Utah State Legislature appropriated over $320 million for homeless services for just over 7,000 people, says more money is not the solution. The solution is adding far more accountability to the money already being spent. 

Howell believes that if donations from people and organizations such as the LDS Church were entered into the equation, then close to half a billion dollars would be spent on these 7,500 individuals. “It would be better to just be writing these people checks.” he quipped. 

Doing the math, perhaps he is right. This amounts to $55,000 per homeless individual in Utah. But Jean Hill disputes his numbers and math. From Utah Stories’ investigations, the amount of money being spent on homeless resource centers as well as long-term-supportive housing or (Housing First) is astounding. 

Jean Hill says that if Housing First was properly funded and the support team of case workers was properly staffed than it would be a success. She says that the support team is far understaffed and that they cannot find enough social workers who will follow-up and provide the support that the current tenants need.

The Ever-Increasing Costs of Housing First in Utah

We reported earlier how the Magnolia Project, which was deemed a huge success for chronically homeless individuals, cost nearly $261,000 per unit. This was a Housing First Project which provided over 65 units at a cost of over $17 million. 

Our main question for both participants was what the homeless keep asking us in our interviews: “Why can’t we just be allowed to camp somewhere?” Why not allow for a city-sanctioned homeless camp? Jean Hill said she didn’t believe this would actually save any money because sanitation, food, healthcare, and security are all of the main ongoing costs. Providing a camp would not reduce any of these costs. 

Scott Howell said that a tiny home village like the one that the Other Side Village is proposing would be something more like this, and it would be far less expensive than the current model.

Answering Questions From The Homeless in Utah

Before we spoke to Jean Hill and Scott Howell we spoke to Jamie Draper a homeless woman camped out by the Jordan River who says she has been homeless for four years. Draper says that she would like to work, but if she leaves her camp she risks all of her possessions being confiscated by the police. Draper and her boyfriend Alfanzo choose to live by the Jordan River and take weekly or bi-weekly treks using their large bicycle trailer to the local food banks to get what they need to survive. 

A homeless couple camping next to Jordan River: Jamie Draper and Alfonzo
A homeless couple camping next to Jordan River: Jamie Draper and Alfonzo

Draper doesn’t believe a city-sanctioned homeless camp would work out because as she says, “A lot of the people out here would not be able to function well in a camp environment.” Draper says that many of the people who are choosing to not live in the shelters are using drugs. She says that she and her boyfriend both use drugs but never opioids. 

Watch the podcast to hear what Scott Howell says that Jamie should do, along with Jean Hill’s answers and response to Jamie’s lifestyle and situation camping on the bank of the Jordan.

 

FULL INTERVIEWS

RELATED CONTENT

If Salt Lake City’s Homeless Had a Say in The over $20 Million Spent on Them

Homeless in Salt Lake City: The Worsening Conditions of the Chronically Homeless and Those Suffering from Mental DisordersHomeless Advocate Claims SLC Mayor Has a Conflict of Interest in Handling Homeless Situation

Why Is the 600% Increase in Homeless Spending Resulting in More Homelessness in Utah?

SUBSCRIBE TO PRINT MAGAZINE

 

Subscribe to Utah Stories weekly newsletter and get our stories directly to your inbox

* indicates required



 

 

, , , , ,


Join our newsletter.
Stay informed.


  • Artist Kate Kilpatrick Brings Utah’s History to Life Through Murals

    “I think we’re all interconnected; as individuals as well as societies,” Kilpatrick notes. Her work showcases those connections exuberantly, and whatever scale she’s working on, you can bet that in terms of energy and spirit, she’s painting large.


  • Dyslexia and ADHD in Kids: Why Some Students Struggle to Read in School

    That’s what led to my conversation with Donell Pons, a Utah-based dyslexia expert who has spent more than two decades working with students who struggle to read. What struck me right away is how often we get the problem wrong from the start.


  • Why Most People Stay Stuck in Business and What It Takes to Move Forward

    Every so often, you meet an immigrant who came here with almost nothing and managed to build something exceptional.

    Prakash Shah is the kind of man who has spent enough time around risk that he no longer treats it like an interruption.

    Today, he works in business brokerage and advisory, helping owners sell companies, helping buyers decide whether they should step in, and, when the fit is right, helping connect those buyers with private equity. He works in a world of valuations, leverage, due diligence, and hard questions that most people would rather postpone. He also operates in Utah real estate and has built a career around seeing value before it is obvious to everyone else. That is who he is now. What makes him interesting is how early that instinct started to form, and how little his life resembles the way most Americans are raised to think about comfort, career, and security.

    He grew up in Nepal in a boarding school system that would feel severe to many Americans. He was an only child, yet he saw his parents only twice a year for twelve straight years, until high school graduation. He lived inside routine. He shared space with boys from different social classes and different family circumstances. The school was structured enough that money did not buy you any special standing once you were inside. Everyone followed the same rules. Everyone was subject to the same discipline. In his case, it was an army school. Everything was measured. Everything was scheduled. In that kind of environment, you do not build your life around preference. You build it around adaptation.

    That contrast matters.

    A lot of American children are raised to search for what fits them. What are you passionate about? What do you enjoy? What feels right? Those are not bad questions, but they can create a habit of waiting for life to align itself before action begins. Prakash learned something else much earlier. He learned that life often does not align itself first. You enter the room as it is, you deal with the people in it, and you figure out how to function without making your comfort the center of every decision. He said that one of the biggest lessons from those years was tolerance, the ability to live with people from all walks of life and genuinely learn to get along with them. That is not a soft value. In business, it turns into resilience. In negotiation, it turns into patience. In career terms, it turns into range.

    When he came to the United States over 25 years ago, he did not arrive with the kind of runway that allows for a prolonged identity search. He came with two suitcases and enough money for one semester. He went to Hunter College in New York City, then to NYIT near Central Park, studying media and then media and technology management. He also studied psychology. Those details matter because they show something about his mind. He was interested in people before he built a career around deals. Even then, what attracted him was not technical prestige. It was understanding motives, behavior, and how people reveal themselves.

    But New York is merciless toward vague ambition. It demands payment in rent, transit, food, and time.

    Prakash worked constantly. He took multiple jobs. He paid tuition, paid rent, and skipped most of what Americans imagine as college life. There were no romantic years of drifting from café to concert to self-discovery. He talked about not having the luxury of dates, travel, or finding himself. He was working. Even laundry was not a small detail. In New York, he pointed out, you do not just throw clothes in a machine at home. You haul them to the laundromat, count quarters, and measure what is necessary. He also described distraction in a way that most native-born Americans probably do not think about. For immigrants, distraction is not always pleasure. Sometimes distraction is the constant pressure of competing needs. Tuition or rent. Food or savings. A better coat or another month of making do. He was not romanticizing the struggle. He was describing the arithmetic of it.

    That arithmetic did not make him cautious. If anything, it did the opposite.

    While in college, he had the option of safer analytical work. Instead, he took a sales job with Time Warner Cable that sent him into the South Bronx from 6 p.m. to 10 p.m. to knock on doors. He is not a physically imposing man. He knew exactly what kind of neighborhoods he was walking into. He described apartment buildings where people kept pit bulls, where tension was normal, where one mistake in tone or timing could end a conversation immediately. For most people, that kind of job would have been something to survive and forget. For him, it became a school in human behavior. “It’s not about talking… it’s about listening,” he said.

    One story from that period says almost everything about how he operates. He knocked on a door one night around 8:45 and found himself facing a huge man with a gun on the table, pit bulls nearby, and a half-eaten pizza in front of him. It had all the ingredients of a very bad scene.

    Continue reading and support independent Utah journalism with a purchase of Utah Stories (Digital + Print) or 3 month free trial (Digital).


  • Ancient Pyramid Discovered in Sugar House Park, Salt Lake City

    A Salt Lake City resident says he may have uncovered what he believes to be a buried structure beneath a well-known hill in Sugar House Park, raising questions that have drawn both curiosity and skepticism.